May 19, 2022 • 34 mins
Cheryl Dunye, director of Episodes 207 and 208 joins host Gabrielle Collins to discuss Cheryl’s process, behind-the-scenes Easter Eggs and the significance of the last two episodes of Bridgerton’s second season. Then Cheryl and Nicola Caughlan, aka Penelope Featherington, unpack the heartbreaking “break up” scene between Penelope and Eloise.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a partnership between Shondaland Audio
and iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your exclusive
peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. Before we
meet our guests this week, here's a brief freecap of
episode two oh seven Harmony. As Violet Bridgerton plans a ball,
(00:20):
Anthony aims to give up his viscount duties to Benedict,
but when the time comes to party, no one but
the Sharma's arrive. That doesn't stop the dancing or the fun,
both inside the Bridgerton house and in the garden. Joining
host Gabrielle Collins this week is Cheryl Dunier, director of
episodes two o seven and two o eight, plus a
little later, Nicola Coughlin aka Penelope Featherington joins us to
(00:41):
break down the heartbreaking Penelois confrontation. Cheryl Dunier, director episode
two O seven and two o eight. We are so
excited and honor to have you in this cyberspace with
us right now, out of respect for your time and
just you know, jumping right in. You're closing out the season.
(01:02):
There's all this stuff and then it all comes together
in like major themes like family and sisterhood. And I
would love if you could paint the picture for us
your first moments with the script, anything that really spoke
to you or jumped out. I looked at all the
(01:23):
other episodes, and I looked at my episode of my block,
and I was like, do I have to do all
the sex? It's all the sex coming in my block?
Penelloise breakup, and I was like, what is going on?
My god? I realized that I had a lot going
on in my block, right, the couple coming together, almost dying,
(01:46):
this whole breakup between Penn and Eloise, and so that's
what I looked at. I was like, Okay, we're not
playing here. I'm dealing with it, right, I mean, you're
gonna wrap it all up, let's go, right. So, I
you know, I take it as an adventures as it's written.
It was excited, you know, really yeah, you know, dealing
with the performances that were given by you know, some
of the cast around you know these parts, it's just
(02:09):
you know, blew me away. It's just ridiculous. So I
read all the scripts and I saw all the shows,
and I think the scripts, especially around the world of Bridgeton,
there are texts in their own right. I mean, if
you think think about a novel, the text itself, the
script is different. There's different characters, there's different segues, worlds,
the way it's adapted, you know, the people who were
(02:32):
cast in it, the you know, all these sort of
things are different, and then what you get on the
screen is a whole whole different thing. But I do
consider a script an interstitial text, and thus Bridgerton was
one where the texts were great. They were amazing, amazing writing.
When Bridgeton first came out, it was all about it
(02:52):
being an escapist kind of experience. It's this whimsical, glittery,
fascinating world to get lost in. And this season I
felt like the whimsy was a back drop. I felt
like we saw past that veil of you know, like
lace and glitter and really got into the heart of
(03:16):
like what makes these people who just happened to be
very wealthy and among this very elite, like the ton
human still in spite of all of that pretty stuff,
you know, especially you know this second season and the room.
I mean, I think the one thing that rings true
with bridget In is it's salacious, delicious, romantic, and you know,
(03:39):
just captivating page by page. You're just kind of, you know,
soaking it in and just moving through it. Bringing bridgeton
back to audiences for season two, your creative decisions visually
and what you bring to the experience, because you have
such a long mosaic of filmmaking experiences, so I would
(04:00):
not have thought of you and Bridgerton. You know, the
whole team led by Tom Verica as our producing director,
one of these executive producers from Shondaland who directed many
of the episodes. He really he's there last season, he's
you know on this season, he's actually doing Queen Charlotte,
He's you know on next season. We have a long
(04:22):
standing relationship. I know him from the Ava Duverney world
and whatnot. M He was like, yeah, I think you're
the perfect person for this, and I was like, oh, yes,
this is very exciting. And Tom he really gets it.
He had he has clarity and he has voice with it.
(04:42):
And so when he brought me on to the show,
I think all the work that I've done wanting from
the Watermelon Woman, which is about a romance from the
you know, looking at a lens of diversity and inclusion
and queeredness and whatnot. You know, I think that my
work has sort of led up to the this moment
where dealing with a historical which I love, dealing with
(05:04):
an archive, which I love, and dealing with a living
archive is another thing that I love. And that's really
what Bridget is about, the living love archive of something
that you know can be imagined, reimagined and it changes people.
That's my intersectionality of this, you know, of the Bridget
in world enity that is such I'm so glad you
(05:26):
went there because because it's in your face and you're like, oh,
this is like an like an obvious bring it out
in the conversation. Did you see any of those articles
that questioned if there was queer abating in Bridgerton and
that there was not any no strong storyline that represented
or was inclusive of that, And did you have any
(05:49):
strong perspective on that? You know, there's two things to
go to that one. I mean, I got what I
got of it, and I know like a lot of
queer people worked on the show. I mean, that's another thing, right,
So that's one thing to say. Yeah, I'll give you
an old, old story from baby Charlay. When I as
a young work, you know, I was in college Philadelphia,
(06:12):
Temple University, Me and my little group of you know, queers,
black lesbians and the like whatever we were. Spike Leaves
come into town, and Lord, every black woman in Philly,
where I was living at the time, was like up
and you know, it was all there was. And Spike
Lee was like, everyone's upset about Nola, like why do
you do her like that? And da da da da
(06:33):
and this and all of that, and so Spike came.
He had a little Q and A afterwards. I remember
it completely. There's a lot of black women that ready
to stand at the microphone to ask him a question.
Somebody asked the first question, and of course sister gets
up there and goes like, why did you do know
a lot like that? Why you write you know, her representation?
And um, Spike goes, you know what, if you want
(06:55):
to make a film that you know, answers all these issues,
make your own film. That was his mind next, and
people are like, oh, no he did, And I was
sitting there like no, he, yes, he did. Go make
your own film. If you want to talk about these things,
go make your own film. Yeah, and I did. So
that's you know, that's the other side of it when
(07:17):
when it's not there for you make your own. He's
the one who said to me indirectly, go make your
own cinema, Go make your own stories, if you want
to write about queer people, if you want to make
somebody who's you know, out or whatnot or whatever the
person was asking and and it was like sort of
(07:38):
the last kicker I needed before I did, you know,
sh She Don't Fade or Janine or some of the
shorter works as I was doing. Yeah, and that's what
I would say about the world of of of Bridgeton,
you know. And if people feel that there's not enough
on the page, that's let's make Let's make our own pages.
And I think that's what lovely enough right now, this
(07:59):
moment of us having to media being our main moment
of consumption and that you know so much media as
being sort of you know made, is that you can
go out and pitch a show and or TikTok or
whatever you are, right and or a podcast like this
and have your own show. Yeah. But yeah, I can
(08:20):
understand people wanting more the moment of seeing there's a
problem instead of complaining. It's an opportunity, right, And I
think that's one thing is how to turn you know,
these moments that you know Bridget does not offer enough
or go dig deeper deeper. There's not like, where's the
queer story here? I would say the Pineloise relationship is
(08:42):
queer in itself to me, to a lot of people,
right right, And what do you see when they break up?
O they I said, you know, just just go for it. Um.
They were like, you know, Joan Crawford and Betty Davis,
I said, do it. We'll be back after the break
with nicolacacklind as we dive into the Peneloise relationship and
(09:05):
break up, Welcome back. Let's get into all things Peneloise.
With nicola'cacklin, who plays Penelope Featherington. I feel like you
make such a like splash, yeah, And I think this
is why I love Penelope so much. One. I just
(09:27):
love what you what Nicola brings to Penelope. For me,
at least, she's just the most relatable. I feel like
I get Penelope because it's funny, because you know, I
get so many messages from fans of the show being like,
she's so sweet and she said, I'm like, I don't go,
how sweet you're gonna find her At the end of
the series, Penelope is, you know, like, hey, you're not
(09:51):
being completely truthful about THEO and like, you know, going
to this side of town and reading these things and
getting into the women's rights movement. But then at the
same time, your character is withholding so much from Claudia's character.
She's so kindly a great, Oh look this is terrible.
I think, you know, she's that that thing about Penelope
is like it's like hurt people, hurt people, and she,
(10:12):
you know, I think, has justified a lot to herself
by being well, I'm treated like terribly by my family,
by society, and I'm so overlooked, and I'm going to
do this. But then I think, let that go too
far and excuses far too much of herself and sort
of thinks she can keep Eloise in line when Eloie's
(10:33):
is her own person, and you know, you know, and
it's a it's also comes from a selfishly because she thinks, well,
Eloi's just going to blow this up for me, so
I'm going to try and stop it. And I'm going
to try and you know, yeah, and it was difficult
to film, and then you know that final scene that
was like really hard to break up. Yeah, it was horrible,
(10:54):
like it was. We wondered whether it was headed that
way because there was I think I'm not sure if acted.
The line might have been cut, but it was a
line I think episode two where Penelope goes, you cannot
lie to me, and I was like, that feels like
a strained thing to say, so I questioned it and
then they're no, that's important. I said, Claudia, do you
(11:16):
think she finds out? Like? Do you think she finds out?
And we were like oh. We both were like, I
feel this is so bad, but the truth, you know,
does always come out. But then just Penelope just response
like so hideously in the moment, like it's not good.
Hearing you repeat all that gossip to night. It struck
(11:36):
me because I've never heard you like that. I might
have said those kinds of things before, but tonight was
the first time I in fact heard you say them.
Sounded so familiar, your words, not just the content or
subject pattern. It sounded written almost. Why do you think
(12:01):
that is? You've been reading too much whistle Down. I
knew I was required in vac scene, and I knew,
like it's such an enormous moment in the whole series
that it was like stressful, and I remember we did
it in the read through on Zoom and it was
very emotional. Both Claudie and I were crying. And then
you know, working towards it, I was like, oh God, okay,
(12:23):
like you know, you just want to do it, just
because when the writing's like it was written so brilliantly,
I was like, I really want to make sure I
do this right, and it's gonna it's gonna mean a lot,
and also the series going forward, this moment's gonna be
very important. So I kind of, yeah, it was stressed
about it, and then you know, we went in and
did the rehearsal and you know, it went really well
in rehearsal, and then like the first couple of takes
(12:45):
it just like didn't happen. I was like, this is
not onely to be I wasn't. I think I was
like frozen. And then there was a certain I don't.
We did like a lot of takes of that scene,
a lot of takes, and then at a certain moment
it just clicked and it got to where it needed
to be and it was like and we both and
then Claudia is such a generous actor that you know,
she really gives you back, like you you really feel
(13:05):
it between you. But yeah, there was one moment where
it just got and it was like and everyone clapped.
I was like, oh my god, that never happened. Says,
It's like, Okay, I think I did a good job.
Also because Claudia and I have a real genuine friendship
as well, So it's like to feel that you're just
like I just want them to like, no, not fight.
Even that tiny fight they had, it's like not the
season one fight's like small fights compared to like this
(13:27):
is like terrible. This is like it's catastrophic. Yeah, the
thing is we knew like that was always coming because
you can't keep lying two people. I don't know how
to take it, right. I mean, I just wish I
were a fly on the wall. Could you let us
in a little more on what directing those moments looked
(13:51):
and sounded like Nicholas on point all right, you know
she created that Penelope, right, so there was you know
already the juice was already, you know, the cup was poured,
the cup was full, so being able to pull those
two apart and for them to have suspicions, for them
to kind of keep secrets to each other, for them
to kind of play it up and down was amazing.
(14:12):
And then on the other side, I must say that,
you know Claudia, I felt like I didn't get enough
time with both Claudia or Nicola because they're just both amazing.
You know. They were just they knew they're on time,
gave it through all. I was just a friend with them,
(14:33):
and I just wanted to do have more, more of that,
more of that narrative, more of that time. But when
I unleashed them again and I said, you know, this
is Betty Davis, this is Joan Crawford going at it.
When you guys are breaking up, go for it. And
they were just they had like boxers in the corner.
They were ready. I do a little dance with them first,
(14:54):
kind of show them where I want the blocking and
stuff like that, and they were just like, yeah, just
let's this is gonna go. So it really exciting. It
was one of the most exciting. The other exciting storyline
that I got to deal with was this the two
of them. I'm so sorry you were right about all
of it. I was trying to protect is about what
you were doing by writing about me in your latest sheet,
(15:17):
by telling the entire world about things I trusted. You know,
it is the only way if it's the Queen, it
wasn't you. It was the only way I could save you,
the only person you were interested in saving, what's yourself?
Eloise gets near damning evidence that Penelope is Lady whistle Down,
but she's not excited about it. Like maybe the audiences
and maybe even Penelope had hoped. Do we think Penelope
(15:39):
would have wanted Eloise to be more like, oh my gosh,
my best friend is Lady whistle Down? Like do you
feel like she had a little bit of vanity there?
A little bit of ego there? And this was that
part of the direction, This part of the direction, part
of the story that was written a number one that's
on the page, but number two, I think, you know,
(16:01):
there was so much for Eloise going on, you know,
I mean, as the bridget In, you know, so it's
more of it's a bridget In story, as somebody who
was forming a relationship with somebody that she had to
give up because of you know, the suspicion of being
a lady whistled on herself. She was truly hurt. So
(16:24):
I think the pain that they both felt ran really deep,
you know, And I think that like that's that's what
happens in friendships too. It's like, you know how easy
it is to make up with somebody who hurts you deeply.
It's really interesting because that's what I've always said it
about Chan Lane show that they allow women to be
imperfect and yeah, they're not always going to do things
(16:48):
that you're rooting for. It allows them to make mistakes.
But it's not there's no black and white, there's no
goodies and bodies. There's like human beings living human lives
and making the errors we all make because you can't
try and like morally reason with it like you know,
like we do. I did say like Laudia, and I go,
oh god, she's lying a lot. But then I have
to go, Okay, why what, why? Why is she doing it?
(17:10):
I think she feels very wrong in a lot of right,
and she doesn't speak out in a moment, so she's like,
I'm going to get my revenge by writing about these
people and doing this, And you see her family just
being so like rude to her and you know, demeaning
and it's just not nice. So then she's like, Bob,
I'll wield my power in this way. But then I think, yeah,
she does, let that go too far, too far, And
(17:31):
then she likes stats back of the person she loves
the most in the world, as we always do, as
we always do exactly, and I think, you know, she's
unlike her family members, but then she's still a member
of that family. So you learn, you know, there's nature
and nurture. There's going to be a certain level of
you know, Porsha Futherington in her ear that's gonna come
out of her mouth at a certain point. Oh and
(17:52):
it's like she knows how to snap back when she
needs to, and it's not nice, but she that she
does do it. I wrote, I wrote, and I gave
it up for you. I do not even know you.
I look at you now and all I feel is
pity for you, sequestered here in this very room, writing
(18:17):
your secret little scandal sheet, tarnishing everyone in tunnel because
you are too scared to stand up for yourself. In reality,
you are something clearly an insipid wall flower. Indeed, at
least I did something. All you ever do is talk
(18:40):
about doing something. You have all these great ambitions, these
great plans, but I am the one who actually did
something great and you cannot stand it, can you? But
what do you think that makes you? Yeah? I did try,
and I watched her a lot this season. I tried
to integrate some of Poorshe into Penello Be this time around,
(19:01):
because I feel like a certain part of Lady Whistledown
is porsh of Heatherington and how like, you know, she
can be sharp, and she's a smart woman, and I
know what Polly says about her, like you could easily
see her as this sort of villain, but she essentially
she's a woman doing her best with what she has
because she's, you know, she's got these three daughters that
(19:22):
she has to get married off. Her husband sort of
gambled away their money, and then she's left to the
mercy of another man coming in. So she's doing what
she needs to do. You know. Can can we blame
her for that? But yeah, I certainly tried to incorporate
certain things. And there was certain like little mannerisms that
Polly had that I would watch and go, Okay, in
my humble opinion, that's brilliant. That's freaking brilliant. That's so good.
(19:48):
I love that. I've said a lot of times, but
I often think of Lady Whistledown is sort of a
drag persona for Penelope, Like I'm always I love drag,
and I always I'm fascinated by you know, drag queens
who you know, as boys are like quite shy and
reserved and then come out and there this most fabulous
woman and they, you know, the way they can embody
this character. And for me, I was like, it's sort
(20:09):
of a similar thing. She just puts on this outfit
and she can go, yeah, I'm a boss, I can
do this, and I can. You know, her mother is
like this strong woman, and I think she watches out
and she learns from that and goes, okay, I'm gonna
you know cass players that and like, you know, faking
it till you make it. A lot of us do
that a lot of the time. So yeah, all that
stuff was like very helpful to me for finding like
(20:29):
how to sort of play that side of her. I
will keep a large share of the money to support
myself and my young ladies, and I had missus Varley
for the signature on a document stating that as soon
as one of my girls has a son, the estate
shall pass to them. But he's an excellent penmanship, you see.
(20:51):
The top of course, will be infuriated to discover that
you've run away with all the money that you tricked
out of their trusting hands. Oh you're welcome to try
to explain it to them now that they're all gathered here.
You are cruel, I am a mother, and you're not
even any worse off than when you arrived with nothing.
(21:14):
I mean, do you know what? Like those finals travises
were sort of the hardest to film because there was
just a lot of emotional turmoil. I think it was
for me, someone who had hidden so much and buried
so much and she never had true control over the
things she was doing. And also it should be like
a real lesson to Penelope. It's very interesting where it
sets her up to go in season three, because I
(21:35):
feel like this season you see her as she thinks
she's got it all figured out, and you see she
really doesn't feel like this whole season is the pride
comes before a fall. I think that's what people want
to hold on for the next season. How they get together,
and I know a little bit about it. I can't
(21:57):
tell you you got it at the next season, but
you gotta and enjoy. Everyone, Just enjoy. We'll be back
with more right after the break. Welcome back to Bridgeton
the Official Podcast. When I think of you, I think
the word complexity comes to mine because I also associate
(22:21):
you with documentary work. I was wondering if you got
to work with the historian or was part of your
prep going through some of the historical elements of the era.
And like Queen Charlotte again, I love an archive, you know,
and I love I love trying to find myself in
an archive. So, you know, the world of Bridgenton, set
(22:42):
in the early you know, nineteenth century, was not one
that was filled with people that looked like me or
narratives that way. There is Queen Charlotte, and there's stories
of others, but they're not documented, right, they're not written.
They might be told as tales, I mean. And so
what I really started thinking about Bridgetin and what happened
you know the season was thinking about the empire and
(23:05):
its reach, and you know, I'm talking about the British Empire,
the extent of which they you know, marked the world
and changed the world. Right, So that's really what we're
seeing in bridget In. And that's sort of the history
that I jumped into, you know, the East India Trading Company,
the West India Trading Company, you know, where the British
Empire had its feet and so they started digging into
(23:28):
that to help with the story, especially the East India
Trading Company, and thinking about what relationships and I'm just
using the term it's Southeast Asia, but I'll use the
term India. The relationship between you know, the British Empire
and its foothold in India, and so that's where the
(23:48):
narrative came from. So that's where I started to think
about things. So that really helped make some plausibility around
what my episodes are about, because it, you know, deals
with this romance between um, you know, the eldest bridget
In and a wonderful, young, beautiful woman from India. And
so I just kind of went with that trying to
(24:10):
find stories. But I stopped, you know, at a certain point,
I said, you know, let me just deal with what
Shonda and you know, the team of Bridgeton was providing
because it's again, it's it's a it's a train that
I jumped on. It was already the people's decisions were
already made. It was a family that I was walking
into and becoming a part of. So um, I just
(24:31):
turned to all the family members and they just kind
of embraced me. Designers and everybody, you know, costumes, wardrobe, hair,
the actors. I mean, it's such a family, and so
I relied on speaking with them and becoming close with
them to get get all the background that I needed
to make my episode much more real. The other directors,
(24:54):
everybody who worked on the show, from a PA to
you know, a designer. I was able to have a
heart to heart, zoom to zoom and mask to mask
friendly chat with Working with Tom Erica last time, he
was like making sure everyone felt comfortable and understood, like
(25:17):
the sense of longing was important, And this time he
just kept saying like trust was such an important part
of working with the cast. Yeah, he's really genuinely so great.
When people come to step they go, oh, you just
film and then it's done. You're like, oh it, so
it could be like twenty five days, like the same thing.
His kids were in an episode in season one. Yeah,
(25:38):
it was really funny. They were they were extras in
a scene running around and his son was like super bored.
He said to him, can you just get it right
this time? I go on that takes His son was maybe,
but I want to say like nine or teching, Oh
my gosh. But yeah, just someone that, like, you know,
Harbor's like a good atmosphere on a set is invaluable
because I mean, you're all working so hard and then
(25:58):
to get to like enjoy it and you know, leave
feeling like, you know, he's really come to something, had
a good day. He just always creates that atmosphere. He's
just great. This is a diverse world, right, but the
inclusion of everybody at the table of these things is
such a different way. I'm learning how to use that myself.
I mean, I think that's something to be said from
(26:19):
my experience on this show is like the cast is beautiful,
you know, the story is beautiful. Everybody's at the table,
and you're not even thinking about it. You're you're you're
swept away with the story. I mean, you you forget that,
you know Lady Danbury, Oh, she doesn't let you forget,
but add you especially, she's such a wonderful actor. Um
(26:41):
you know where she came from and who she is.
Right again, the Queen gold is being Queen Charlotte just
like such. You know, she didn't have to nail it in,
you know, at all. So sometimes the lightest touch and
you have to let let people have space, audiences have
space to digest and interpret and be entertained. And I
(27:03):
think that's really what you know, this season of Virgin's about.
This is a reimagining of something that's very not what
it is on screen right now. You know, I watched
it during the pandemic and you know, in a day
or two with my wife and we were giddy, giddy, giddy,
you know, just something to kind of tear us away
or something. But when I got to work on the show,
there's so much more to it. And I think these
(27:25):
friendships and these love affairs and these lightly touching on
some issues around you know, race and class, just you know,
ever so much. I mean, this is a Shonda world,
so you know, it's nothing that you want to wear
on your sleeve, but we are apparent of it, you know,
we realize what these things are. And I realized that
the Shonda touch here and the way Shonda deals with inclusion,
(27:48):
the inclusion of everybody at the table of these things
in my journey as a creator, writer, director, performer, you know,
producer or whatever, is that you know, sometimes the lightest touch,
you don't have to hammer some things in the beauty
of it actually is that it is front and center
(28:09):
without the big label that's on it. And Will and
you know his wife, Alice, I mean, their world. It's
so interesting when I was working with Martin's who plays Will,
who runs the bar, and there's a couple scenes in
there and where he's dealing with Jack Featherington and he's
(28:30):
a former boxer and there's storyline about his boxing coming
up and Jack trying to kind of dig him into
a point of his pain and trying to spark up
violence in him, you know, the angry black person. It's
like right there, but they don't. It's right there. But
what I told him as an actor is and this
(28:51):
is something that I I really understand, Like where I've grown
as an actor is like, sure, it's written on the page.
It says, go for it, you know, be the angry.
And I think he was ready to do that. And
I said you know what he said, notes any notes, boss,
And I'm like, yeah, okay, um, play this one with
your intellect, not you, not your fear, not your you know,
(29:11):
your body. I play this as an intellectual and intellectual
to an intellectual, and he the take that I got from,
I mean, I think they mix it in a little bit,
but he played as an intellectual and the performance was
completely genius. About my cousin did to keep him meticulous
records of all debts and wages. I just came across
(29:36):
a rather significant one myself. I do not wish to
defend myself against baseless accusation, and I do not wish
you to do so. I respect a self made man,
no matter what means he uses to make himself. There
are these stereotypes of you know, black man being you know,
physical and always angry. And so you know, if I'm
(29:59):
able to then play with these tropes or these stories
and you know, inclusion and you know all our hate
and pain and whatnot we have about television and having it,
you know include queerness and blackness and all poc nous
and everything like that, it's not to play it as angry.
(30:22):
It's actually to play it as an intellectual and to
say it like, I'm not going to become up here
screaming like that. I'm beyond the screaming, you know, I'm
smart enough not to do it. And he did this,
and it was everybody was like, how did you get
him to do? What did you do? And I was
just like, I just told him not to be like
an angry black man that everybody told him to me. Yeah,
don't take the obvious choice. I don't think the obvious choice.
(30:43):
He might look at it, might read it on the page.
Give him something else to do, give him a different take.
So he just lit up as an actor, he just
lit up, and he was just like, what else? Oh
my god, I can't believe that you can only have
like two or three scenes together. I want to work
with you more and more. I mean you you actually
flipped it for me, and I like being able to
have an imprint on an actor of his stature, you know,
(31:05):
and a whole other, you know, universe of acting to
me was something that was amazing. I mean, I love
the show and I loved my time there, but being
able to touch actors in other worlds than just sort
of the American you know, Cable subscription world, you know,
in the North America. It's like, was so great to
be able to see that my my my acting style
(31:28):
and my relationships to talent and my relationship to story
relate to a whole other, you know world, and I
felt I felt really good about that. Do you welcome
or get tired of being asked about activism in your interviews?
I do not, because they don't ask me about that
(31:49):
much more. They only asked me about the Watermelon Woman.
You know. That's that's the thing everybody asked me about.
They don't ask me about like what activists duty and
job I'm doing and whatever it done, I'm because I mean,
I think that the Watermelon Woman is my activism, right
and making sure that it's alive and its legacy is
(32:10):
open for anybody to empower themselves is my activism. And
it was made in that fashion to keep this woman
alive for twenty five years, that that you know, going
on twenty five years now that may be alive. It
was like not easy to keep that one alive, but
she's she's alive and kicking. You know. That's my activism
(32:32):
is making sure that that that she lives and then
being able to support others and being able to step
aside and let others come in and do their work.
You know, that's what I do, and I'm not always
asked about how I do my thing, but thank you
for asking. It's so obvious why you close out the
season of Bridgerton snaps, snaps. It makes sense, It makes
(32:55):
total sense, Miss Cheryl Danier. Thank you so much. Thank
you for Bridget, thank you for Watermelon Woman, and thank
you for your time. Is there anything maybe that you
just would like to talk about and just kind of
like a bigger picture kind of takeaway. Yeah, it was
(33:15):
definitely more challenging than season one, but in an exciting way.
And also the world of Bridget we know is it will?
You know, the love stories pass on? So it's interesting
thinking about Penelope then becoming the leading lady, like it's
quite it's quite wild to me. But like then that's
a new challenge and I think, you know, this job
(33:36):
should always be challenging. I would hate to go into
work and be like, oh, another day of this. Yeah,
but I feel like it's exciting because there's so much more. Wow,
it's gonna it's that terrifies me, But yeah, thank you.
Like this was so so awesome. This is a pleasure.
Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
the world of Bridgeton join Gabrielle and guests as the
(33:58):
rewatch continues next week with episode two oh eight featuring
Simone Ashley, Jonathan Bailey, and Cheryl Dounier. If you're enjoying
this show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or
leave us a review. And if you haven't finished binging
Bridgerton on Netflix, please go do that so you can
enjoy all of the juicy spoilers with us. Bridgerton. The
Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman,
(34:21):
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince to Johnny Bridgerton. The Official Podcast is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you
subscribe to your favorite shows.
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a partnership between Shondaland Audio
and iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your exclusive
peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. Before we
meet our guests this week, here's a brief freecap of
episode two oh seven Harmony. As Violet Bridgerton plans a ball,
(00:20):
Anthony aims to give up his viscount duties to Benedict,
but when the time comes to party, no one but
the Sharma's arrive. That doesn't stop the dancing or the fun,
both inside the Bridgerton house and in the garden. Joining
host Gabrielle Collins this week is Cheryl Dunier, director of
episodes two o seven and two o eight, plus a
little later, Nicola Coughlin aka Penelope Featherington joins us to
(00:41):
break down the heartbreaking Penelois confrontation. Cheryl Dunier, director episode
two O seven and two o eight. We are so
excited and honor to have you in this cyberspace with
us right now, out of respect for your time and
just you know, jumping right in. You're closing out the season.
(01:02):
There's all this stuff and then it all comes together
in like major themes like family and sisterhood. And I
would love if you could paint the picture for us
your first moments with the script, anything that really spoke
to you or jumped out. I looked at all the
(01:23):
other episodes, and I looked at my episode of my block,
and I was like, do I have to do all
the sex? It's all the sex coming in my block?
Penelloise breakup, and I was like, what is going on?
My god? I realized that I had a lot going
on in my block, right, the couple coming together, almost dying,
(01:46):
this whole breakup between Penn and Eloise, and so that's
what I looked at. I was like, Okay, we're not
playing here. I'm dealing with it, right, I mean, you're
gonna wrap it all up, let's go, right. So, I
you know, I take it as an adventures as it's written.
It was excited, you know, really yeah, you know, dealing
with the performances that were given by you know, some
of the cast around you know these parts, it's just
(02:09):
you know, blew me away. It's just ridiculous. So I
read all the scripts and I saw all the shows,
and I think the scripts, especially around the world of Bridgeton,
there are texts in their own right. I mean, if
you think think about a novel, the text itself, the
script is different. There's different characters, there's different segues, worlds,
the way it's adapted, you know, the people who were
(02:32):
cast in it, the you know, all these sort of
things are different, and then what you get on the
screen is a whole whole different thing. But I do
consider a script an interstitial text, and thus Bridgerton was
one where the texts were great. They were amazing, amazing writing.
When Bridgeton first came out, it was all about it
(02:52):
being an escapist kind of experience. It's this whimsical, glittery,
fascinating world to get lost in. And this season I
felt like the whimsy was a back drop. I felt
like we saw past that veil of you know, like
lace and glitter and really got into the heart of
(03:16):
like what makes these people who just happened to be
very wealthy and among this very elite, like the ton
human still in spite of all of that pretty stuff,
you know, especially you know this second season and the room.
I mean, I think the one thing that rings true
with bridget In is it's salacious, delicious, romantic, and you know,
(03:39):
just captivating page by page. You're just kind of, you know,
soaking it in and just moving through it. Bringing bridgeton
back to audiences for season two, your creative decisions visually
and what you bring to the experience, because you have
such a long mosaic of filmmaking experiences, so I would
(04:00):
not have thought of you and Bridgerton. You know, the
whole team led by Tom Verica as our producing director,
one of these executive producers from Shondaland who directed many
of the episodes. He really he's there last season, he's
you know on this season, he's actually doing Queen Charlotte,
He's you know on next season. We have a long
(04:22):
standing relationship. I know him from the Ava Duverney world
and whatnot. M He was like, yeah, I think you're
the perfect person for this, and I was like, oh, yes,
this is very exciting. And Tom he really gets it.
He had he has clarity and he has voice with it.
(04:42):
And so when he brought me on to the show,
I think all the work that I've done wanting from
the Watermelon Woman, which is about a romance from the
you know, looking at a lens of diversity and inclusion
and queeredness and whatnot. You know, I think that my
work has sort of led up to the this moment
where dealing with a historical which I love, dealing with
(05:04):
an archive, which I love, and dealing with a living
archive is another thing that I love. And that's really
what Bridget is about, the living love archive of something
that you know can be imagined, reimagined and it changes people.
That's my intersectionality of this, you know, of the Bridget
in world enity that is such I'm so glad you
(05:26):
went there because because it's in your face and you're like, oh,
this is like an like an obvious bring it out
in the conversation. Did you see any of those articles
that questioned if there was queer abating in Bridgerton and
that there was not any no strong storyline that represented
or was inclusive of that, And did you have any
(05:49):
strong perspective on that? You know, there's two things to
go to that one. I mean, I got what I
got of it, and I know like a lot of
queer people worked on the show. I mean, that's another thing, right,
So that's one thing to say. Yeah, I'll give you
an old, old story from baby Charlay. When I as
a young work, you know, I was in college Philadelphia,
(06:12):
Temple University, Me and my little group of you know, queers,
black lesbians and the like whatever we were. Spike Leaves
come into town, and Lord, every black woman in Philly,
where I was living at the time, was like up
and you know, it was all there was. And Spike
Lee was like, everyone's upset about Nola, like why do
you do her like that? And da da da da
(06:33):
and this and all of that, and so Spike came.
He had a little Q and A afterwards. I remember
it completely. There's a lot of black women that ready
to stand at the microphone to ask him a question.
Somebody asked the first question, and of course sister gets
up there and goes like, why did you do know
a lot like that? Why you write you know, her representation?
And um, Spike goes, you know what, if you want
(06:55):
to make a film that you know, answers all these issues,
make your own film. That was his mind next, and
people are like, oh, no he did, And I was
sitting there like no, he, yes, he did. Go make
your own film. If you want to talk about these things,
go make your own film. Yeah, and I did. So
that's you know, that's the other side of it when
(07:17):
when it's not there for you make your own. He's
the one who said to me indirectly, go make your
own cinema, Go make your own stories, if you want
to write about queer people, if you want to make
somebody who's you know, out or whatnot or whatever the
person was asking and and it was like sort of
(07:38):
the last kicker I needed before I did, you know,
sh She Don't Fade or Janine or some of the
shorter works as I was doing. Yeah, and that's what
I would say about the world of of of Bridgeton,
you know. And if people feel that there's not enough
on the page, that's let's make Let's make our own pages.
And I think that's what lovely enough right now, this
(07:59):
moment of us having to media being our main moment
of consumption and that you know so much media as
being sort of you know made, is that you can
go out and pitch a show and or TikTok or
whatever you are, right and or a podcast like this
and have your own show. Yeah. But yeah, I can
(08:20):
understand people wanting more the moment of seeing there's a
problem instead of complaining. It's an opportunity, right, And I
think that's one thing is how to turn you know,
these moments that you know Bridget does not offer enough
or go dig deeper deeper. There's not like, where's the
queer story here? I would say the Pineloise relationship is
(08:42):
queer in itself to me, to a lot of people,
right right, And what do you see when they break up?
O they I said, you know, just just go for it. Um.
They were like, you know, Joan Crawford and Betty Davis,
I said, do it. We'll be back after the break
with nicolacacklind as we dive into the Peneloise relationship and
(09:05):
break up, Welcome back. Let's get into all things Peneloise.
With nicola'cacklin, who plays Penelope Featherington. I feel like you
make such a like splash, yeah, And I think this
is why I love Penelope so much. One. I just
(09:27):
love what you what Nicola brings to Penelope. For me,
at least, she's just the most relatable. I feel like
I get Penelope because it's funny, because you know, I
get so many messages from fans of the show being like,
she's so sweet and she said, I'm like, I don't go,
how sweet you're gonna find her At the end of
the series, Penelope is, you know, like, hey, you're not
(09:51):
being completely truthful about THEO and like, you know, going
to this side of town and reading these things and
getting into the women's rights movement. But then at the
same time, your character is withholding so much from Claudia's character.
She's so kindly a great, Oh look this is terrible.
I think, you know, she's that that thing about Penelope
is like it's like hurt people, hurt people, and she,
(10:12):
you know, I think, has justified a lot to herself
by being well, I'm treated like terribly by my family,
by society, and I'm so overlooked, and I'm going to
do this. But then I think, let that go too
far and excuses far too much of herself and sort
of thinks she can keep Eloise in line when Eloie's
(10:33):
is her own person, and you know, you know, and
it's a it's also comes from a selfishly because she thinks, well,
Eloi's just going to blow this up for me, so
I'm going to try and stop it. And I'm going
to try and you know, yeah, and it was difficult
to film, and then you know that final scene that
was like really hard to break up. Yeah, it was horrible,
(10:54):
like it was. We wondered whether it was headed that
way because there was I think I'm not sure if acted.
The line might have been cut, but it was a
line I think episode two where Penelope goes, you cannot
lie to me, and I was like, that feels like
a strained thing to say, so I questioned it and
then they're no, that's important. I said, Claudia, do you
(11:16):
think she finds out? Like? Do you think she finds out?
And we were like oh. We both were like, I
feel this is so bad, but the truth, you know,
does always come out. But then just Penelope just response
like so hideously in the moment, like it's not good.
Hearing you repeat all that gossip to night. It struck
(11:36):
me because I've never heard you like that. I might
have said those kinds of things before, but tonight was
the first time I in fact heard you say them.
Sounded so familiar, your words, not just the content or
subject pattern. It sounded written almost. Why do you think
(12:01):
that is? You've been reading too much whistle Down. I
knew I was required in vac scene, and I knew,
like it's such an enormous moment in the whole series
that it was like stressful, and I remember we did
it in the read through on Zoom and it was
very emotional. Both Claudie and I were crying. And then
you know, working towards it, I was like, oh God, okay,
(12:23):
like you know, you just want to do it, just
because when the writing's like it was written so brilliantly,
I was like, I really want to make sure I
do this right, and it's gonna it's gonna mean a lot,
and also the series going forward, this moment's gonna be
very important. So I kind of, yeah, it was stressed
about it, and then you know, we went in and
did the rehearsal and you know, it went really well
in rehearsal, and then like the first couple of takes
(12:45):
it just like didn't happen. I was like, this is
not onely to be I wasn't. I think I was
like frozen. And then there was a certain I don't.
We did like a lot of takes of that scene,
a lot of takes, and then at a certain moment
it just clicked and it got to where it needed
to be and it was like and we both and
then Claudia is such a generous actor that you know,
she really gives you back, like you you really feel
(13:05):
it between you. But yeah, there was one moment where
it just got and it was like and everyone clapped.
I was like, oh my god, that never happened. Says,
It's like, Okay, I think I did a good job.
Also because Claudia and I have a real genuine friendship
as well, So it's like to feel that you're just
like I just want them to like, no, not fight.
Even that tiny fight they had, it's like not the
season one fight's like small fights compared to like this
(13:27):
is like terrible. This is like it's catastrophic. Yeah, the
thing is we knew like that was always coming because
you can't keep lying two people. I don't know how
to take it, right. I mean, I just wish I
were a fly on the wall. Could you let us
in a little more on what directing those moments looked
(13:51):
and sounded like Nicholas on point all right, you know
she created that Penelope, right, so there was you know
already the juice was already, you know, the cup was poured,
the cup was full, so being able to pull those
two apart and for them to have suspicions, for them
to kind of keep secrets to each other, for them
to kind of play it up and down was amazing.
(14:12):
And then on the other side, I must say that,
you know Claudia, I felt like I didn't get enough
time with both Claudia or Nicola because they're just both amazing.
You know. They were just they knew they're on time,
gave it through all. I was just a friend with them,
(14:33):
and I just wanted to do have more, more of that,
more of that narrative, more of that time. But when
I unleashed them again and I said, you know, this
is Betty Davis, this is Joan Crawford going at it.
When you guys are breaking up, go for it. And
they were just they had like boxers in the corner.
They were ready. I do a little dance with them first,
(14:54):
kind of show them where I want the blocking and
stuff like that, and they were just like, yeah, just
let's this is gonna go. So it really exciting. It
was one of the most exciting. The other exciting storyline
that I got to deal with was this the two
of them. I'm so sorry you were right about all
of it. I was trying to protect is about what
you were doing by writing about me in your latest sheet,
(15:17):
by telling the entire world about things I trusted. You know,
it is the only way if it's the Queen, it
wasn't you. It was the only way I could save you,
the only person you were interested in saving, what's yourself?
Eloise gets near damning evidence that Penelope is Lady whistle Down,
but she's not excited about it. Like maybe the audiences
and maybe even Penelope had hoped. Do we think Penelope
(15:39):
would have wanted Eloise to be more like, oh my gosh,
my best friend is Lady whistle Down? Like do you
feel like she had a little bit of vanity there?
A little bit of ego there? And this was that
part of the direction, This part of the direction, part
of the story that was written a number one that's
on the page, but number two, I think, you know,
(16:01):
there was so much for Eloise going on, you know,
I mean, as the bridget In, you know, so it's
more of it's a bridget In story, as somebody who
was forming a relationship with somebody that she had to
give up because of you know, the suspicion of being
a lady whistled on herself. She was truly hurt. So
(16:24):
I think the pain that they both felt ran really deep,
you know, And I think that like that's that's what
happens in friendships too. It's like, you know how easy
it is to make up with somebody who hurts you deeply.
It's really interesting because that's what I've always said it
about Chan Lane show that they allow women to be
imperfect and yeah, they're not always going to do things
(16:48):
that you're rooting for. It allows them to make mistakes.
But it's not there's no black and white, there's no
goodies and bodies. There's like human beings living human lives
and making the errors we all make because you can't
try and like morally reason with it like you know,
like we do. I did say like Laudia, and I go,
oh god, she's lying a lot. But then I have
to go, Okay, why what, why? Why is she doing it?
(17:10):
I think she feels very wrong in a lot of right,
and she doesn't speak out in a moment, so she's like,
I'm going to get my revenge by writing about these
people and doing this, And you see her family just
being so like rude to her and you know, demeaning
and it's just not nice. So then she's like, Bob,
I'll wield my power in this way. But then I think, yeah,
she does, let that go too far, too far, And
(17:31):
then she likes stats back of the person she loves
the most in the world, as we always do, as
we always do exactly, and I think, you know, she's
unlike her family members, but then she's still a member
of that family. So you learn, you know, there's nature
and nurture. There's going to be a certain level of
you know, Porsha Futherington in her ear that's gonna come
out of her mouth at a certain point. Oh and
(17:52):
it's like she knows how to snap back when she
needs to, and it's not nice, but she that she
does do it. I wrote, I wrote, and I gave
it up for you. I do not even know you.
I look at you now and all I feel is
pity for you, sequestered here in this very room, writing
(18:17):
your secret little scandal sheet, tarnishing everyone in tunnel because
you are too scared to stand up for yourself. In reality,
you are something clearly an insipid wall flower. Indeed, at
least I did something. All you ever do is talk
(18:40):
about doing something. You have all these great ambitions, these
great plans, but I am the one who actually did
something great and you cannot stand it, can you? But
what do you think that makes you? Yeah? I did try,
and I watched her a lot this season. I tried
to integrate some of Poorshe into Penello Be this time around,
(19:01):
because I feel like a certain part of Lady Whistledown
is porsh of Heatherington and how like, you know, she
can be sharp, and she's a smart woman, and I
know what Polly says about her, like you could easily
see her as this sort of villain, but she essentially
she's a woman doing her best with what she has
because she's, you know, she's got these three daughters that
(19:22):
she has to get married off. Her husband sort of
gambled away their money, and then she's left to the
mercy of another man coming in. So she's doing what
she needs to do. You know. Can can we blame
her for that? But yeah, I certainly tried to incorporate
certain things. And there was certain like little mannerisms that
Polly had that I would watch and go, Okay, in
my humble opinion, that's brilliant. That's freaking brilliant. That's so good.
(19:48):
I love that. I've said a lot of times, but
I often think of Lady Whistledown is sort of a
drag persona for Penelope, Like I'm always I love drag,
and I always I'm fascinated by you know, drag queens
who you know, as boys are like quite shy and
reserved and then come out and there this most fabulous
woman and they, you know, the way they can embody
this character. And for me, I was like, it's sort
(20:09):
of a similar thing. She just puts on this outfit
and she can go, yeah, I'm a boss, I can
do this, and I can. You know, her mother is
like this strong woman, and I think she watches out
and she learns from that and goes, okay, I'm gonna
you know cass players that and like, you know, faking
it till you make it. A lot of us do
that a lot of the time. So yeah, all that
stuff was like very helpful to me for finding like
(20:29):
how to sort of play that side of her. I
will keep a large share of the money to support
myself and my young ladies, and I had missus Varley
for the signature on a document stating that as soon
as one of my girls has a son, the estate
shall pass to them. But he's an excellent penmanship, you see.
(20:51):
The top of course, will be infuriated to discover that
you've run away with all the money that you tricked
out of their trusting hands. Oh you're welcome to try
to explain it to them now that they're all gathered here.
You are cruel, I am a mother, and you're not
even any worse off than when you arrived with nothing.
(21:14):
I mean, do you know what? Like those finals travises
were sort of the hardest to film because there was
just a lot of emotional turmoil. I think it was
for me, someone who had hidden so much and buried
so much and she never had true control over the
things she was doing. And also it should be like
a real lesson to Penelope. It's very interesting where it
sets her up to go in season three, because I
(21:35):
feel like this season you see her as she thinks
she's got it all figured out, and you see she
really doesn't feel like this whole season is the pride
comes before a fall. I think that's what people want
to hold on for the next season. How they get together,
and I know a little bit about it. I can't
(21:57):
tell you you got it at the next season, but
you gotta and enjoy. Everyone, Just enjoy. We'll be back
with more right after the break. Welcome back to Bridgeton
the Official Podcast. When I think of you, I think
the word complexity comes to mine because I also associate
(22:21):
you with documentary work. I was wondering if you got
to work with the historian or was part of your
prep going through some of the historical elements of the era.
And like Queen Charlotte again, I love an archive, you know,
and I love I love trying to find myself in
an archive. So, you know, the world of Bridgenton, set
(22:42):
in the early you know, nineteenth century, was not one
that was filled with people that looked like me or
narratives that way. There is Queen Charlotte, and there's stories
of others, but they're not documented, right, they're not written.
They might be told as tales, I mean. And so
what I really started thinking about Bridgetin and what happened
you know the season was thinking about the empire and
(23:05):
its reach, and you know, I'm talking about the British Empire,
the extent of which they you know, marked the world
and changed the world. Right, So that's really what we're
seeing in bridget In. And that's sort of the history
that I jumped into, you know, the East India Trading Company,
the West India Trading Company, you know, where the British
Empire had its feet and so they started digging into
(23:28):
that to help with the story, especially the East India
Trading Company, and thinking about what relationships and I'm just
using the term it's Southeast Asia, but I'll use the
term India. The relationship between you know, the British Empire
and its foothold in India, and so that's where the
(23:48):
narrative came from. So that's where I started to think
about things. So that really helped make some plausibility around
what my episodes are about, because it, you know, deals
with this romance between um, you know, the eldest bridget
In and a wonderful, young, beautiful woman from India. And
so I just kind of went with that trying to
(24:10):
find stories. But I stopped, you know, at a certain point,
I said, you know, let me just deal with what
Shonda and you know, the team of Bridgeton was providing
because it's again, it's it's a it's a train that
I jumped on. It was already the people's decisions were
already made. It was a family that I was walking
into and becoming a part of. So um, I just
(24:31):
turned to all the family members and they just kind
of embraced me. Designers and everybody, you know, costumes, wardrobe, hair,
the actors. I mean, it's such a family, and so
I relied on speaking with them and becoming close with
them to get get all the background that I needed
to make my episode much more real. The other directors,
(24:54):
everybody who worked on the show, from a PA to
you know, a designer. I was able to have a
heart to heart, zoom to zoom and mask to mask
friendly chat with Working with Tom Erica last time, he
was like making sure everyone felt comfortable and understood, like
(25:17):
the sense of longing was important, And this time he
just kept saying like trust was such an important part
of working with the cast. Yeah, he's really genuinely so great.
When people come to step they go, oh, you just
film and then it's done. You're like, oh it, so
it could be like twenty five days, like the same thing.
His kids were in an episode in season one. Yeah,
(25:38):
it was really funny. They were they were extras in
a scene running around and his son was like super bored.
He said to him, can you just get it right
this time? I go on that takes His son was maybe,
but I want to say like nine or teching, Oh
my gosh. But yeah, just someone that, like, you know,
Harbor's like a good atmosphere on a set is invaluable
because I mean, you're all working so hard and then
(25:58):
to get to like enjoy it and you know, leave
feeling like, you know, he's really come to something, had
a good day. He just always creates that atmosphere. He's
just great. This is a diverse world, right, but the
inclusion of everybody at the table of these things is
such a different way. I'm learning how to use that myself.
I mean, I think that's something to be said from
(26:19):
my experience on this show is like the cast is beautiful,
you know, the story is beautiful. Everybody's at the table,
and you're not even thinking about it. You're you're you're
swept away with the story. I mean, you you forget that,
you know Lady Danbury, Oh, she doesn't let you forget,
but add you especially, she's such a wonderful actor. Um
(26:41):
you know where she came from and who she is.
Right again, the Queen gold is being Queen Charlotte just
like such. You know, she didn't have to nail it in,
you know, at all. So sometimes the lightest touch and
you have to let let people have space, audiences have
space to digest and interpret and be entertained. And I
(27:03):
think that's really what you know, this season of Virgin's about.
This is a reimagining of something that's very not what
it is on screen right now. You know, I watched
it during the pandemic and you know, in a day
or two with my wife and we were giddy, giddy, giddy,
you know, just something to kind of tear us away
or something. But when I got to work on the show,
there's so much more to it. And I think these
(27:25):
friendships and these love affairs and these lightly touching on
some issues around you know, race and class, just you know,
ever so much. I mean, this is a Shonda world,
so you know, it's nothing that you want to wear
on your sleeve, but we are apparent of it, you know,
we realize what these things are. And I realized that
the Shonda touch here and the way Shonda deals with inclusion,
(27:48):
the inclusion of everybody at the table of these things
in my journey as a creator, writer, director, performer, you know,
producer or whatever, is that you know, sometimes the lightest touch,
you don't have to hammer some things in the beauty
of it actually is that it is front and center
(28:09):
without the big label that's on it. And Will and
you know his wife, Alice, I mean, their world. It's
so interesting when I was working with Martin's who plays Will,
who runs the bar, and there's a couple scenes in
there and where he's dealing with Jack Featherington and he's
(28:30):
a former boxer and there's storyline about his boxing coming
up and Jack trying to kind of dig him into
a point of his pain and trying to spark up
violence in him, you know, the angry black person. It's
like right there, but they don't. It's right there. But
what I told him as an actor is and this
(28:51):
is something that I I really understand, Like where I've grown
as an actor is like, sure, it's written on the page.
It says, go for it, you know, be the angry.
And I think he was ready to do that. And
I said you know what he said, notes any notes, boss,
And I'm like, yeah, okay, um, play this one with
your intellect, not you, not your fear, not your you know,
(29:11):
your body. I play this as an intellectual and intellectual
to an intellectual, and he the take that I got from,
I mean, I think they mix it in a little bit,
but he played as an intellectual and the performance was
completely genius. About my cousin did to keep him meticulous
records of all debts and wages. I just came across
(29:36):
a rather significant one myself. I do not wish to
defend myself against baseless accusation, and I do not wish
you to do so. I respect a self made man,
no matter what means he uses to make himself. There
are these stereotypes of you know, black man being you know,
physical and always angry. And so you know, if I'm
(29:59):
able to then play with these tropes or these stories
and you know, inclusion and you know all our hate
and pain and whatnot we have about television and having it,
you know include queerness and blackness and all poc nous
and everything like that, it's not to play it as angry.
(30:22):
It's actually to play it as an intellectual and to
say it like, I'm not going to become up here
screaming like that. I'm beyond the screaming, you know, I'm
smart enough not to do it. And he did this,
and it was everybody was like, how did you get
him to do? What did you do? And I was
just like, I just told him not to be like
an angry black man that everybody told him to me. Yeah,
don't take the obvious choice. I don't think the obvious choice.
(30:43):
He might look at it, might read it on the page.
Give him something else to do, give him a different take.
So he just lit up as an actor, he just
lit up, and he was just like, what else? Oh
my god, I can't believe that you can only have
like two or three scenes together. I want to work
with you more and more. I mean you you actually
flipped it for me, and I like being able to
have an imprint on an actor of his stature, you know,
(31:05):
and a whole other, you know, universe of acting to
me was something that was amazing. I mean, I love
the show and I loved my time there, but being
able to touch actors in other worlds than just sort
of the American you know, Cable subscription world, you know,
in the North America. It's like, was so great to
be able to see that my my my acting style
(31:28):
and my relationships to talent and my relationship to story
relate to a whole other, you know world, and I
felt I felt really good about that. Do you welcome
or get tired of being asked about activism in your interviews?
I do not, because they don't ask me about that
(31:49):
much more. They only asked me about the Watermelon Woman.
You know. That's that's the thing everybody asked me about.
They don't ask me about like what activists duty and
job I'm doing and whatever it done, I'm because I mean,
I think that the Watermelon Woman is my activism, right
and making sure that it's alive and its legacy is
(32:10):
open for anybody to empower themselves is my activism. And
it was made in that fashion to keep this woman
alive for twenty five years, that that you know, going
on twenty five years now that may be alive. It
was like not easy to keep that one alive, but
she's she's alive and kicking. You know. That's my activism
(32:32):
is making sure that that that she lives and then
being able to support others and being able to step
aside and let others come in and do their work.
You know, that's what I do, and I'm not always
asked about how I do my thing, but thank you
for asking. It's so obvious why you close out the
season of Bridgerton snaps, snaps. It makes sense, It makes
(32:55):
total sense, Miss Cheryl Danier. Thank you so much. Thank
you for Bridget, thank you for Watermelon Woman, and thank
you for your time. Is there anything maybe that you
just would like to talk about and just kind of
like a bigger picture kind of takeaway. Yeah, it was
(33:15):
definitely more challenging than season one, but in an exciting way.
And also the world of Bridget we know is it will?
You know, the love stories pass on? So it's interesting
thinking about Penelope then becoming the leading lady, like it's
quite it's quite wild to me. But like then that's
a new challenge and I think, you know, this job
(33:36):
should always be challenging. I would hate to go into
work and be like, oh, another day of this. Yeah,
but I feel like it's exciting because there's so much more. Wow,
it's gonna it's that terrifies me, But yeah, thank you.
Like this was so so awesome. This is a pleasure.
Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
the world of Bridgeton join Gabrielle and guests as the
(33:58):
rewatch continues next week with episode two oh eight featuring
Simone Ashley, Jonathan Bailey, and Cheryl Dounier. If you're enjoying
this show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or
leave us a review. And if you haven't finished binging
Bridgerton on Netflix, please go do that so you can
enjoy all of the juicy spoilers with us. Bridgerton. The
Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman,
(34:21):
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince to Johnny Bridgerton. The Official Podcast is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you
subscribe to your favorite shows.
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